Need some help

Here is the thing.

I got invited to a panel regarding the transition from high school to college. Thing is that it quite a hot topic in Croatia. Why?
Well kids here have to go through a thing called goverment graduation - basicly they are asked to write an esseys on random topic from various subjects that they already covered in previous 4 years of schooling. For example - they were required to write an essey on Dostoyesky's Crime and punishment, altho they have read it and extensivly covered the book about year and a half earlier. So they need stuff like that to get out from school. in addition they ofcours have to pass mandatory acceptance exams for colleges that actually cover the topics they will need during they further schooling.

Anyways,... I would like to ask of you if you have some time to just describe what is needed to cover this transition in your countries. Any input you might have will be very helpful

Well Sweden have a rather messy system. first we have a basic school system of 9 years and then we have a preperative school for 3 year. This 3 years are ment to prepar students for ther future carears it can be carpenting school, chef school, mechanical school and ofc collage prepairing aswell like economics, tekniks, nature etc. Now the transition from 1 school to the other is or 1 grade to another only demand that you have passed all your courses and in the last 3 years you need to do a kind of exam work on the topic of your choosing. But that examwork is rather easy imo.
However, The preperatory school and later to collage, that are free in sweden, only have a certain amount spaces (or shall i say maximum number of students they can take on) and among the sudent that applay the ones whit the highest greads are excepted.

Now that is tha bases for it but it is also about to change sone. I can accualy rant on and on about the flaws in the swedish school system. but i will try to keep it short.
The main problem is that teachers are more or less under the order "no student are alowec to fail" if a student start to fail we need to put in "special resourses" this leads to lowering of the bar. Also another problem is that ALL preperative schools are elagable for collages meening some one that went to carpenting school should have the abilaty to applay for medical school. This is the "We are all equal" pollasy that swedes are so famous for. Now this imo resoults in 2 things. First pepoul who want to go to collage and have good grades first applay for a "practical" preperative school like carpenting sins its easier to get good grade in woodshop then it is to get the same grade in advanced mathamatics thereby giving them better greads but less knowlage. Also this resoults in that students whit not so good grades that might have made an excelent carpenter are forced to choose the only schoole left, this sins prepshools are mandatory, and that is often collage preparing schools like nature, econamy etc.
This resoults in 2 types of students 1 good students that are poorly prepaired for collage and poor students that dont realy wont to go to collage but are forced there cause they are to "dumb" to be a carpenter according to the swedish educational system.

Well i need to stop ranting now and go back to work...

Thanks for your input Lea. I appreciate it a lot.

One question tho! Just wanted to see if I got it right. So basicly you finish preparatory school, do your final exam of your own choosing, and thats all you need for college? No additional exams given by colleges like in Croatia?

Here we have these critera grades (just like you from preparatory school), final exam (school based, like yours), and acceptance exam (colledge based which if I got you right you guys dont have)?

High school to college means 6th form to University in the British system right?
That's at around 18 years old.

Twila wrote:High school to college means 6th form to University in the British system right?
That's at around 18 years old.

ye. To clarify a bit Croatia ladder:

6 - 14 (7-15)- elementary school (8 years)
14 - 18 (15 -19) - high school
18 - onwards - coolege or university (depending on the colledge lasts 3 - 6 years)
after that PHD studies

Basicly I am most interested in that 18th year (high school-college) transition.

Well over here in the UK we have a very unorganzied school system. Everyone starts off at primary school from the age of 5-12. During primary school you are taught different subjects, just like most countries. These vary from maths, english, science, geography and history - all at a very basic level for children.

Now i remember correctly the last year of primary school, you take an exam called "SATS" - Standard assessment tests.These are also taken during the first year or two of high school too. SATS are purely to see how your getting on compared to others of your age group and your given a mark out of 100.

At the age of 12-13 you move onto high school - much bigger school with added subjects such as religious education, physical education, german/french/spanish, music class, drama and art. Also two more added sciences, biology and chemistry. Both of which start at a very basic level and work upwards.

The age group for high school goes from 12/13-16/17 depending on which half of the year you were born in - i was born in october so i was the older of my year. High school is set into different "years" these start from 7-11. The people that start high school at the same time as you will be in the same year as you as you progress through high school.
Think of a year as a bracket of children, taken in at the same time. A year roughly has about 100 students.

Nearing the end of high school, from year 10, you start to prepare for your GCSEs. These are national qualifications that employers and colleges look for when you go for a job/college course. You take an exam on english,maths, two of the sciences, history or geography, one of the three languages and one of religious education/physical education/drama/art. So you leave with about 5-7 GCSEs.

Next step is college. The age group for this is open to all as UK higher learning is open to all ages for a price. But straight from high school at 16, you will leave college at 18 or depending on the length of the course your taking. Be it 1 year upto 3 years. Depending on how you did with the GCSEs, you can do a course that will hopefully get you a qualification in called an A-level. A-levels are the advanced teachings of the basic subjects like maths/english/science.I think you can do A-level drama/art/music but don't quote me on that.

College education can get you different qualifications, these vary from A-levels, NVQs, BTECs to City and Guilds and i think a few more. All of which i have no idea about to be honest. There just different educational governing bodies for different subjects.

As for the transition between high school and college, alot of children entering college are still the immature teenagers that they'll be for a few more years. Obviously there are the exceptions, but overall, i think that UK college education could do with being more strict and regimented. Albeit for there own good and the good of the country. UK colleges are realy lacking on the more hands-on courses, like mechanics. People tend to think, esp the students themselves, that hands-on courses are for the "dumber" students.

Also these hands-on courses tend to give "lower" and less qualifications and its very very hard to get a job if you left college in search of work, instead of going to University. But i guess that alot of manufacturing and industry jobs are now computerised to save money/improve quality and efficientcy. Shame realy cause the UK used to be the world leader in industry and manufacturing

(A-levels are the new word for what you may of heard, O-level. If you've never heard of these then i won't confuse you cause i dont realy know myself )


But yeah, hope this helps lemme know if you want anything a bit more specific or clarified and i'll give it ago. Sorry for my appaulling gramer....and the wall of text....once i get started....well you know

Ok.

In Malta:
Malta follows the British system.
Primary school is up to 11.
Secondary school is 11-16.
6th form is 16-18.
University is from 18 onwards.

Since Malta is very small, there is only 1 University, and about 5 6th form colleges: 1 large government run one, and 3 or 4 church run (Jesuits, Salesians etc.) and privately run ones.
Every student in 6th form has 2 major subjects, (The equivalent of 'A'-levels in the British system) and 4 minor subjects (a maltese-invented 'Intermediate' level...which is somewhere between an 'A' and an 'O' level).
One of the four minor subjects is a (much hated) obligatory course called "Systems of Knowledge" , which covers a mish-mash of history of science, history of the arts, modern technology, some classic literature, art interpretation, etc.
Of the remaining 5 subjects (2 major, 3 minor), one must be a science, one must be a language, and one must be a humanity.
Myself, for example, had Chemistry and Biology as major subjects, and Physics, English and Philosophy as minor subjects. (3 sciences, 1 language and 1 humanity)
A Languages student would have, for example, English and Italian as major subjects, maltese or french as a minor subject, Physics or Biology as a science, and Religion or Philosophy as a humanity.
(Religion means the study of the Roman Catholic faith by the way, not religion in general).

After two years of 6th form, all the students in all the schools take the same exams (all students of Chemistry in the different 6th forms take the same paper).

The University itself does not have an entrance examination. It relies on the results of these (goverment planned) final papers.

Every course in University has it's own specific requirements.
Medicine, for example, requires a 'B' or better in both Chemistry and Biology as major subjects, and a 'C' Physics as a minor subject.
A Science course requires a 'C' or better in any two science subjects as major subjects.
A Law course reuires an 'A' in english as a minor subject, or a 'B' or better in english as a major subject.
etc.

The big disadvantage of this system is that students are already quite limited in the choice of course they can take at University by the choices they made previously.
It was impossible for me to switch to, say, Engineering since I did not study any Math at 6th form.
Another disadvantage is that the Intermediate level subjects have no official value anywhere except malta (while the major subjects are equivalent of a British 'A' level).

The advantage is that, except for (numerous) loop-holes, students are generally well prepared academically for the courses they choose at University.
And since the system is homogenised, all students start their respective courses at university with roughly the same knowledge.


On a side not, something which in very different in Malta from the rest of Europe is that students are paid an allowance (which varies by course, around 150 euro per month) for the first course they enrol into. This is done to encourage more students to go to university (any because now that the system is in place, any government trying to remove it will face student "riots")
PhD studies, on the other hand, are unpaid by the government.

WAs going to post a reply but Akaris already covered it (and alot better than I would have done ) , but I just want to add on from it:

"Nearing the end of high school, from year 10, you start to prepare for your GCSEs. These are national qualifications that employers and colleges look for when you go for a job/college course. You take an exam on english,maths, two of the sciences, history or geography, one of the three languages and one of religious education/physical education/drama/art. So you leave with about 5-7 GCSEs."

This will vary from every school. I had the option of other topics like Business Studies, Home Econimics (cooking), Textiles, I.T, woodwork. I couldn't do the sciences separately, had to do all 3. Didn't have to do R.E or P.E (thank god because I hated them). and I ended up with 9 GCSE's, but can vary from each school.
Also on some topics there are 2 or 3 different tiers (3 for maths, 2 for english, science and some other ones, foundation and higher)

Foundation level, which is from grades C to G, which is the "easier" level (the highest mark you can earn is a C)
Intermediate, which is B to E, middle level (highest mark you can earn is a B, if you get below an E and you fail the exam)
Higher, which is A* (A star) to C, alot harder than foundation and intermediate. (highest mark you can get is A*, get below a C and you fail the exam)

I'll post my results although they're not that spectacular
Maths Higher - C
Double English, Foundation - DD
Double Science, Foundation - DD
Textiles Technology - D
French - D
Art - C
Busniess Studies, Higher - C

Hope this hasn't confused you Tesh, lol

<3

Thanx a lot to all of you. This input is most usefull.

Only need to get it all in some kinda order

Allright, I'm going to make an attempt to explain the Belgian system as it's a different system from the rest of Europe completely (as far as I know ofcourse ).

There are three kind of programs, two of which are done at college and one at University. There are also programs in other schools, but those are more to learn a certain profession and not a degree type. All of these courses start at the age of 18 and onward, so when they leave highschool.

Here are the three types:
Professional Bachelor degree (done at college) - three year program where at the end you get a degree. This is considered the lowest form of degree of the three.
Academical Bachelor-Master degree (done at college) - three year bachelor program, one year master program. Basically, this is a degree for those that do not want or are capable of doing a University degree. It is considered to be on equal ground as a University degree in most cases.
Bachelor-Master degree (done at University) - three year bachelor program, one-two year master program (depending on the program you take).

As for transition between highschool and college/university, we don't really have one. The way to study in the highschools here is to learn everything by heart and then do an exam at the end of the year, nearly no projects. This system is also applied to the first few years of college. The closer you get to graduating from college, more projects will be assigned. In your last year, you need to do a project that takes a year and you need to pass this if you want your degree. Basically, our transition actually happens in college itself (2nd-3rd year mostly).

We don't have entrance exams either to enter these programs (with the exception of medical school and veterinarian). Everybody can join his or her program of choosing without having to do an entrance exam or even regardless of the subjects they took in highschool. It's also very cheap here as intuition fee ranges from 80 euros to 550 euros, which depends on your parents pay from their work. This has ofcourse an impact on the percentage of people that pass their first year. I'll take for example the engineering programs (both industrial and civil) as it's considered one of the hardest programs.

Each year around 1000 people join for their first year at an engineering program (at one particular campus, I'm not talking country wide). These are the pass percentages (I do need to say that these are estimated, as for the exact figures I don't know. They will not differ much from what I will write here though):
1st year - 25-30% passes their exams and move on to the 2nd year.
2nd year - 60-70% passes
3rd year - 85-90% passes
4th year - 90-95% passes
5th year (if available) - 95%-100% passes
Our selection progress happens during the program, not between highschool and college. This has a dramatic result in terms of people that don't pass their 1st year, but everyone is given the chance to study and get a degree. I want to mention that the percentages do depend a bit on which program you follow (as their are a few that are quite a bit easier ).

Hope I explained everything as clearly as possible, if not don't hesitate to ask.